4月7日下午3点，XELS的创始人、CEO Takeshi Nojima和COO Mitchell Hammer做客深链财经线上沙龙，围绕“减少碳足迹，降低碳排放，XELS如何打造环境友好的数字解决方案？”主题进行分享。以下为分享实录，深链财经整理。

嘉宾介绍

Takeshi Nojima：大家好，我是Takeshi Nojima，目前我在这个反全球变暖项目上已经工作了好几年，在此之前我有超过10年的软件开发经验。

Mitch Hammer：大家好，我是Mitch，主要负责业务发展、运营和战略。主要包括确定投资机会所在的战略区域，并满足主要利益相关者的要求。我还负责领导和组织与团队和社区成员的每周会议，讨论我们的经济和激励模式、Token经济、时间表、运营和执行战略的所有方面。在此之前，我在东京的一些初创公司工作，以及之前在迪拜的澳大利亚贸易和投资委员会工作过。

分享环节

深链财经：请跟大家先介绍下首先，XELS是什么项目呢？First, what is XELS?

Hammer：XELS是一个具有生态意识的区块链平台，使企业和个人都能够通过购买Token化的碳中和信用额，轻松透明地抵消他们的碳足迹。

XELS is an eco-conscious blockchain platform enabling corporations and individuals alike the ability to easily and transparently offset their carbon footprint by purchasing tokenized carbon offset credits.

深链财经：请简单介绍下XELS要解决的问题是什么？What's the problem that your start-up is trying to solve?

Hammer：XELS的核心目标是促进一个更绿色、更健康的地球。我们正在通过提高碳补偿市场的参与度和透明度来实现这一目标。碳市场是复杂的，标准可以有很大的不同，但通常有两种主要的信用:“合规”信用受到总量控制和交易系统的严格监管。“自愿”信用对任何人都是可用的，并且很受那些想向消费者表明他们对解决气候变化问题是认真的公司的欢迎。它们也对那些想减少碳足迹并简单地按自然规律行事的人有吸引力。我们最初的重点是促进后者的使用，同时保护个人和企业免受欺诈。

The core goal of XELS is to promote a greener, healthier planet. We’re working toward that by increasing both participation and transparency in carbon offset markets. Carbon markets are complex and standards can vary wildly, but generally there are two main kinds of credits: “compliance” credits are heavily regulated and required under cap and trade systems. “Voluntary” credits are available to anyone, and are popular with companies who want to show consumers they are serious about tackling climate change. They are also attractive to individuals who want to decrease their carbon footprint and simply do right by nature. We are initially focused on boosting access to the latter, while also protecting people and businesses from fraud.

自从《京都议定书》和《巴黎协定》签订后碳补偿市场诞生以来，欺诈一直是一个严重的问题。 众所周知，心怀不轨的人会出售虚假或已过期的碳信用额，而信用“回收”欺诈可能导致未退休的碳信用额增加一倍的支出（参见此处，一个对碳信用证带来最大打击的欺诈案件，这个案件甚至使德意志银行陷入困境） 银行：https：//www.cityam.com/tax-scammers-and-carbon-credits-decade/）。 区块链的分布式分类帐技术是碳信用额度的完美用例，因为它无法更改，撤销或重复使用。 数字资产以及交易哈希值也可以被“烧掉”，该交易哈希值可以证明相关的信用额度已永久取消。 我们最初将推出同名的XELSToken作为“平台Token”，以访问将来与一组行业标准的自愿性碳中和信用挂钩的1：1稳定Token–可以将其视为碳信用的“USDT”。

Since the birth of carbon offset markets in the wake of the Kyoto and Paris agreements, fraud has been a serious problem. Bad actors have been known to sell fake or expired carbon credits, and credit “recycling” fraud can lead to double spending of unretired carbon credits (see here for an example of one of the biggest fraud cases to hit carbon credits, which even ensnared Deutsche Bank: https://www.cityam.com/tax-scammers-and-carbon-credits-decade/). Blockchain’s distributed ledger technology is the perfect use case for carbon credits, as it cannot be changed, reversed, or double spent. Digital assets can also be “burned,” along with a transaction hash that proves the associated credit has been retired forever. We’re initially launching the eponymous XELS token as a “platform token” to access a future suite of stable tokens pegged 1:1 to various industry-standard voluntary carbon offset credits – think of those as being the “USDT” of carbon credits.

深链财经：可以给我们介绍下XELS的目标客户是哪些人？Who is your target customer?

Hammer：从个人到最大的全球性公司，任何人都可以参与碳补偿。碳补偿现在已成为亚马逊，微软和耐克等公司的主要目标，它们不再对等待政府牵头感兴趣。 他们已经着手主动消除当前的碳足迹，甚至是整个历史足迹。 特别是零售品牌一直在推行绿色举措，例如使用由再生塑料制成的面料，因为消费者越来越要求它们应对气候变化。 让公司轻松透明地抵消其碳排放而又不必担心被骗，将使他们更加愿意加入这场战斗，并且只要消费者相信他们有意为环境做出改变，就会产生红利。 当然，想要抵消碳排放的普通人也可以参与其中-该平台向所有人开放。

Carbon offsetting is now a major goal of companies like Amazon, Microsoft and Nike, who are no longer interested in waiting around for governments to take the lead. They’ve set out to neutralize their current carbon footprint, or even their entire historical footprint, by their own initiative. Retail brands in particular have been pushing green initiatives, such as using fabrics made from recycled plastics, because consumers are increasingly demanding that they address climate change. Making it easy for companies to transparently offset their carbon without fear of fraud will make them even more willing to enter the fray, and it will pay dividends as far as consumer trust that they are intent on making a difference for the environment. And of course, normal people who want to offset their carbon can also get involved – the platform is open to all.

深链财经：可以简单向我们介绍下为什么选择在现在这个时间点启动？Why is this the right time to do your startup？

Hammer：根据世界银行的数据，人类通过购买和退还碳信用额仅能补偿全球排放量的22％，然而，运营受管制的碳市场的国家的比例已从2016年的40％上升至2020年的70％。需求壁垒可能远远超过了新的碳信用额的发放，这受到了碳项目认证缓慢而昂贵的过程的限制。 由于欺诈已经是一个现实存在的问题，重要的是要有一个更好的平台来满足对碳补偿的日益增长的需求，从而更好地保护那些想通过首先投资碳补偿来做正确的事情的实体。 气候危机非常严峻但可悲的是，“正确的时机”已经过去了很长时间，我们希望XELS能够增加参与度使我们走上通往碳中和的更好道路。

According to the World Bank, humanity compensates for just 22% of global emissions through the purchase and retirement of carbon credits, and yet the proportion of countries operating regulated carbon markets has risen from 40% in 2016 to 70% in 2020. The result is a wall of demand that may far outstrip the issuance of new carbon credits, which is constrained by the slow and expensive process of carbon project certification. Since fraud is already an existing issue, it’s important that the increased demand for carbon offsets is met with a better platform to protect those entities that want to do the right thing by investing in carbon offsets in the first place. The climate crisis is dire – sadly the “right time” has already long passed, but we hope that XELS will increase participation and get us on a better path toward carbon neutrality.

深链财经：其实目前市面上也已经有一些类似的项目，与XELS类似的公司有哪些？XELS与这些公司有什么不同？What are the major comparable companies that have a similar solution as yours? How's your startup different from these players?

Hammer：区块链碳市场的许多“基础设施”项目都已经失败——很少有人采用信用Token化方法。Aircarbon是一家提供交易平台的公司，但你必须是一个合格的投资者(因此，普通人不得参与)。波塞冬是另一个与IBM合作的公司，但我看不到他们公开发布了任何东西。他们似乎专注于抵消销售点，有点像你在商店买东西时的自愿税。Nori使用区块链来验证清除操作，但未启用信用购买。我我认为我们的平台以及用于碳信用额度方法的“稳定币”使我们在该领域独树一帜。

There are a number of blockchain “infrastructure” plays for carbon markets that have folded - few others are taking the credit tokenization approach. Aircarbon is one that offers an exchange, but you must be an accredited investor (thus normal folks are barred from participation). Poseidon is another that was working with IBM, but I can’t see that they have released anything publicly. They appear to be focused on offsetting at point of sale, kind of like a voluntary tax when you buy something at a shop. Nori uses blockchain to verify removals, but doesn’t enable credit purchase. I think our platform plus “stable coin” for carbon credit approach makes us unique in the space.

虽然不是对这个问题的直接回答，但我也想提一下我们与典型的“加密”玩家的区别，因为这个领域经常因为浪费能源而受到批评。虽然XELS打算在以太区块链上公开发布，但我们非常清楚与现有DLT基础设施相关的高能耗问题。为了“身体力行”，XELS将在不久的将来迁移到专有的低能耗区块链。XELS链采用混合权益证明(想想Etherum)和工作量证明(想想比特币)的方法，使用户可以在标准笔记本电脑上运行它，而不需要耗电的高性能GPU矿机。

While not a direct response to this question, I also wanted to mention how we differentiate from typical “crypto” players, when the space is often criticized for its wasteful energy use. While XELS intends to launch publicly on the Ethereum blockchain, we are very cognizant of concerns over high energy consumption associated with existing DLT infrastructure. In order to “practice what we preach,” XELS will migrate to a proprietary low-energy blockchain in the near future. The XELS Chain takes a hybrid proof-of-stake (think Ethereum) and proof-of-work (think Bitcoin) approach, enabling users to run it on a standard laptop without the need for electricity-hungry mining rigs with high-powered GPUs.

深链财经：XELS的收入模式是怎样的？What's your revenue model? 

Hammer：对于我们平台上发生的每一笔交易，XELS都会收取一小笔佣金。在不透露机密信息(仍在保密协议下)的情况下，我们可以说，我们正在与日本5家主要上市公司进行深入谈判，这些公司虽然不是政府要求的，但有兴趣使用XELS自愿抵消他们的碳足迹。

For each transaction that occurs on our platform, XELS takes a small commission. Without revealing confidential information (still under NDA), we can say that we’re in advanced discussions with 5 major listed companies here in Japan that while not required by the government, are interested in using XELS to voluntarily offset their carbon footprints.

其中一家公司明确表示了每年抵消200,000吨二氧化碳的意图-这相当于43000多辆汽车行驶一年，或近34,000个家庭的年用电量二氧化碳排放的总量。详情可查阅网址：https://www.epa.gov/energy/greenhouse-gas-equivalencies-calculator).自愿碳信用额度的成本各不相同，但平均每个信用额度约为10美元，一个信用额度相当于1吨二氧化碳-这将是200万美元的投资，或者如果所有五家公司都决定抵消类似的金额，大约是1000万美元。我们会从这个数字中抽取一定比例。我们将在本月晚些时候会见另外20家上市公司的联盟，并打算与它们签署谅解备忘录。

One of them has specifically expressed the intention of offsetting 200,000 tonnes of CO2 per year – that’s equivalent to more than 43,000 cars being driven for a year, or nearly 34,000 households’ combined annual electricity usage (https://www.epa.gov/energy/greenhouse-gas-equivalencies-calculator). Voluntary carbon credits vary in cost, but average around $10 per credit, with one credit being equal to 1 tonne of CO2 - that would be a $2 million investment, or roughly $10 million if all five companies decide to offset a similar amount. We’d capture a percentage of that amount. We’re meeting a coalition of 20 additional listed companies later this month, and have every intention of signing MOUs with them.

链上期权还有一个痛点就是操作难度太高，分为链上交易的难度以及金融产品设计的复杂度两个部分。之前像Uniswap，Sushiswap等去中心化交易平台其实已经很好地教育市场了，大家逐渐习惯钱包交易的流程，市场也出现了一些更便于操作的聚合平台。而金融产品设计的复杂度，我们Seaweed已经进行了很大程度的精进，比如UI的极致优化，以及期权的简化，使用户一目了然，不需要浪费太多时间去找功能和理解繁杂的表格。当然未来还有很多空间我们可以去做，结合DeFi的本质，我们可以上线更多有趣的资产，比如说优化，比如说农作物商品大宗商品，这都是可以在链上实现的。

深链财经：XELS计划如何在竞争中立足于行业？How do you plan to defend your startup against competition?

Hammer：我们并不认为这一领域的任何人都是竞争对手，更多的是将其视为共同目标而战的盟友。这一领域的每个参与者都在研究略有不同的解决方案，我们尝试以任何可能的方式进行协作。然而，几乎所有这些项目都是在非常耗电的以太区块链上开发的。我们希望吸引组织和开发者转向XELS链，在我们定制的低能耗基础设施上开发他们自己的解决方案。

We don’t really see anyone in this space as competition, more as allies fighting toward a common goal. Each player in this field is working on a slightly different solution and we try collaborate in anyway possible. However, almost all of these projects are developing on the Ethereum blockchain which is very power hungry. We hope to attract organisations and developers to switch over to XELS Chain and develop their own solutions on our bespoke, low-energy infrastructure.

深链财经：目前这个市场的机会有多大？How big is the market opportunity? 

Hammer：我们最初的重点是希望成为天然碳的日本公司。 日本的清洁能源计划落后英国50％，因此潜力巨大。 我们支持首相须秀吉英（Hoshihide Suga）的目标，即到2050年实现净零排放，这是所有日本大型企业都希望加入的计划，我们最初的重点是希望成为天然碳的日本公司。

Our initial focus is on Japanese companies looking to go carbon natural. Japanese clean energy initiatives lag the UK by 50%, so the potential is massive. We’re supporting Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga’s target of reaching net zero emissions by 2050, which is something all big Japanese companies will want to get on board with or face backlash from the government and consumers alike.

日本的清洁能源计划落后英国50％，因此潜力巨大。 我们支持首相须秀吉英（Hoshihide Suga）的目标，即到2050年实现净零排放，这是所有日本大型企业都希望加入的计划否则将面临政府和消费者的强烈反对。在我们了解到的公司中，有三分之二有长期减排目标，或将在今年年底前实现。如上所述，每年20万吨的适度碳抵消目标相当于每家公司约200万美元的投资-仅日本就有3700多家公司在东京证券交易平台上市。来自利益相关者-包括消费者和投资者-的压力将是自愿减排行动的主要驱动力，XELS准备支持任何想要走向绿色的公司或个人。

Two thirds of companies we have apprised have a long-term emissions reduction goal or will have one by the end of this year. As mentioned above, a modest carbon offset goal of 200,000 tonnes per year is equivalent to about $2 million in investment per company – and Japan alone has over 3,700 companies listed on the Tokyo Stock Exchange.Pressure from stakeholders - both consumers and investors – will be the main driver of voluntary carbon reduction action, and XELS is ready to support any company or individual wanting to go green.

深链财经：XELS的Token分发计划是怎样的？Last question, what's your token distribution strategy?

Hammer：我们公司寻求为全球用户群提供合规和自愿信用，从后者开始。 XELSToken将通过数字资产交易平台向公众开放，从而使公司和个人都可以透明地减少其碳足迹。

The company seeks to offer both compliance and voluntary credits to a worldwide user base — starting with the latter. XELS tokens will be made available to the public via digital asset exchanges, allowing both corporations and individuals to transparently reduce their carbon footprints.

这还不是公开的消息，但我们将于4月8日上线并在明天10点JST时间公布上线平台，这将成为个人和公司能够购买XELS令牌的第一个平台。

This is not public knowledge yet, but we’re listing on April 8  and will annouce what platform tomorrow at 10am JST– which will become the first platform by which individuals and companies will be able to purchase XELS tokens.

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来源：资讯